hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 20, 2017 18:48:03 GMT -5
View Halloa to all my fellow Sherlockians & Holmesians! (You know to which tribe you belong, but I'm hoping we can all get along amicably, considering that our common love binds us and the rest is just quibbling and bibbling . . .)
This is the Lounge devoted to all things relating to the first and foremost Consulting Detective, Mr. Sherlock Holmes, Esq. & his fellow lodger, devoted Boswell and most excellent loyal friend and crack shot Dr. John H. 'Three Continents' Watson, M.D.
Our Game's afoot!
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Post by William Smith on Jun 20, 2017 20:14:50 GMT -5
One must have the full sonnet; you left off the last six lines.
Here dwell together still two men of note Who never lived and so can never die: How very near they seem, yet how remote That age before the world went all awry. But still the game's afoot for those with ears Attuned to catch the distant view-halloo: England is England yet, for all our fears— Only those things the heart believes are true.
A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane As night descends upon this fabled street: A lonely hansom splashes through the rain, The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet. Here, though the world explode, these two survive, And it is always eighteen ninety-five.
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 21, 2017 7:32:18 GMT -5
Well, I did do, purposely. I didn't want to overload the quote box, as I was not sure how much it could contain. Since it is Midsummer today, I took a pass on the swirling yellow fogs in acknowledgement of the season. Truly, the atmosphere in London must have been toxic when a yellow fog was on. Where SH and JW are concerned, the last line of the first stanza is the most important.
P.S. I like your avatar. How does one add one of those? This blobby masculine-looking alien head is not working for me.
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Post by William Smith on Jun 21, 2017 13:02:54 GMT -5
Go to profile and you can edit an avatar there, or upload one.
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 22, 2017 8:27:20 GMT -5
Well, I'm fresh from the avatar store. This is my first experience being an anime. Actually this looks amazingly like me. My nose is not that small. The accessories are limited and the selection of mouths was truly disturbing. I do have a green backpack, though.
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Post by William Smith on Jun 22, 2017 13:08:19 GMT -5
I couldn't get my jaw quite right--the square, prothagonous jaw was in the app too much, and my face is a little more square. Kind of fun to fool around. I'm going to work gradually on improving the look. We need a movie-themed photo for a header--I'm going to try Norma Desmond at the end of Sunset Boulevard talking to all those wonderful people out there in the dark.
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Post by William Smith on Jun 22, 2017 13:33:22 GMT -5
To a topic: many actors have played Holmes and Watson (dare I say the original Dynamic Duo?) on film and television. Thought on the most, and least, effective? Or most, and least, Canonical?
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 22, 2017 15:18:34 GMT -5
You may say the Original Dynamic Duo.
I believe Sherlock Holmes has appeared on film something like 250 times so these are deep waters. I have some feeling about your thoughts on the matter. Why don't you kick us off with a candidate? I probably won't be able to respond until tomorrow.
My favorite Watsons are Jude Law & David Burke. Ian Hart was very good also, but he only got the one outing. James Mason always seemed to me more suitable for Holmes. I am unable to find a similar list of featured actors who have been Doctor Watson, which feels like sidekick discrimination to me.
Compliments of Wikipedia: Actors Who Have Played Sherlock Holmes (includes stage, radio, TV, movies and animation) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_actors_who_have_played_Sherlock_Holmes
A while back in the other room, I suggested James D'Arcy as a possible Sherlock Holmes . . and by Jove, I see he's already played SH in a 2002 TV movie, the year before his breakout role in "Master & Commander". He's only a year older than our current Sherlock, Benedict Cumberbatch--those two look like they could be brothers, easily. D'Arcy is 6'3".
I enjoyed Rupert Everett's languid, snotty take on Holmes in 'The Case of the Silk Stocking' (BBC-TV, 2004). Ian Hart was his Watson. Shame there weren't more of these cases.
William Gillette was the first depictor of Sherlock Holmes and he did so while Conan Doyle was still writing the Holmes stories, so he wins Holmes Prime on that score.
Basil Rathbone is probably the image of Holmes most movie viewers have. More people have seen the Rathbone films than have read the original stories.
Jeremy Brett identified so much with his signature role that there were periods, during his manic phases that he believed he actually was Sherlock Holmes. He cut a fine figure in the part until he got so ill. Bit too dour and neurotic, maybe. One thing that strikes one immediately in the stories is Holmes's impish sense of humor. Impish but never 'pawky'.
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Post by William Smith on Jun 22, 2017 22:23:47 GMT -5
Another early Holmes was John Barrymore, in 1922. Pride of place on film belongs, first, to Gilbert M. 'Broncho Billy' Anderson in 1905 (a lost film) and then to two Danish actors in 1909 and 1911--see www.imdb.com/character/ch0026631/?ref_=fn_ch_ch_1. I am fascinated by the long series of adaptations in the 1920s of much of the Canon with Ellie Norwood as Holmes--apparently, he played Holmes more times than any other actor. There are a few DVD with some of the films--you may find this wikipedia article of interest: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_(Stoll_film_series)Obviously, I've not seen all the actors who have portrayed the Dynamic Duo. I must say that I can't say that I have ever seen a Canonical adaptation that was fully satisfying in every respect. (I would speak on non-Canonical stories separately.) The Brett series has scripts that are reasonably close to the originals--not always--but Brett, as you noted, lack's Holmes' humor, and his sharpness--characteristics that Rathbone gets better than anyone else, but of course (apart from The Hound Of The Baskervilles) none of the Rathbone films is particularly Canonical, although there are those that follow the Musgrave Ritual and the Six Napoleons pretty closely. Both Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee are actually preferable to Brett in my book. More later.
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 23, 2017 7:40:13 GMT -5
Forum 101 question: I noticed stev embedded a video in the noir thread. I wanted to add a picture but I do not see an 'Add Attachment' button anywhere as the Help menu suggested. Any thoughts? For now, this is the best I can do. The illustration after the next link is possibly my favorite rendering of Holmes and Watson by Sidney Paget (who incidentally shared my birthday. 'Shares' seems inappropriate since I am still having birthdays but Mr. Paget is not. He died, sadly, at the very young age of 48. The model for Sherlock was his younger brother, Walter--who ironically was the Paget the Strand editors thought they were commissioning to illustrate the Holmes stories; through a mix-up, they got Sidney instead, but after Sid's work hit the stands, no one ever sought to reverse this error.) This photo of Walter Paget shows how very closely his brother hewed to life in creating the Great Detective. -------------------------------------- ignisart.com/camdenhouse/img/paget-w.jpgThe Sidney Paget illustration below is the featured cover for my recently-purchased "Arthur and Sherlock" biography of Conan Doyle. A virtual bottle of the tipple of the drinker's choice if you can guess which case this illustration accompanied. Sherlock is looking particularly handsome and . . Sherlocky . . .in this pose. cdn.historyextra.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/623px_wide/images/features/Sherlock%204.jpg
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 23, 2017 13:55:05 GMT -5
In the style of Dr. Watson, who was fond of list-making, and who famously enumerated the deficiencies of his new flatmate as he perceived them in the very early days of their cohabitation, I present 'A Study of Three (Current) Sherlocks, in order of appearance: Part 1 ROBERT DOWNEY, JR. ('SHERLOCK HOLMES' (2009); 'SHERLOCK HOLMES: A GAME OF SHADOWS', (2011); TBA SHERLOCK 3 Project ( )) His Limits- 1. American (duh). His British accent (trotted out again after 'Chaplin' (1992)sounds like an American doing an all-purpose theatrical Brit accent. There is no way under the sun that a street urchin like Chas. Chaplin and an Oxbridge product of 'country squires' would have the same accent. I'm quibbling but RDJ, though talented, is living proof that Americans really suck at accents.) Placed aside an authentic, posh British accent in Jude Law's Watson, it's all the more painfully obvious. When RDJ and fellow American Rachel McAdams (Irene Adler) are onscreen together, it feels like two bored kids who've broken into the dress-up trunk in Great-Grandma's attic. 2. Too short. Height listed at 5'10". Seems shorter, particularly next to his Watson, the 6'0 Jude Law 3. Entirely wrong body type--stocky and muscular, which has the effect of making him appear shorter. 4. Eye color completely wrong. Bone structure completely wrong. 5. RDJ's extensive career, generously leavened with notoriety over the last 30 years makes it quite impossible to suspend disbelief entirely while watching that this former member of the 1980s Brat Pack was arrested for passing out in a child's bed in a house not his own; that his best-known role is embodying a high-tech flying tin can and that he is almost equally known for having memorably uttered the phrase, "Never go the full 'Tard!" RDJ: His Merits (Pro) 1. RDJ (b. 1965) has always been incredibly youthful-looking for his years, despite the hard mileage he put on himself in the '80s and '90s. Unlike Charlie Sheen, his peer in age and Brat Pack membership, he got his &%$! together and has been sober for 20 years. Now 52 years of age, he was in his mid-40s portraying a Holmes circa 1888 - 89 who would have been a decade younger. His fitness levels are off the charts even for a man 15 years his junior. 2. Nominated for Best Actor for 'Chaplin' (1992)at the tender age of 27, RDJ has lost nothing in the reflexes or vitality since then. The same flair for physical comedy which he brought to his Little Tramp are evident in his Holmes. His stamina, level of fitness and command of his physicality render his Holmes the most vigorous and action-oriented screen Holmes to date. RDJ makes for a plausible pugilist & practitioner of barritsu, which are two accomplishments of Holmes oft alluded to in the stories, but until now rarely portrayed onscreen, if ever. This is not your granddaddy's Holmes. 3. Two more features of RDJ's take which are usually downplayed to non-existent in most screen interpretations are Sherlock's Bohemian sensibilities in wardrobe & SH's facility for quick-change disguises. (see #2 above). Popular attributes of Holmes which are downplayed are Holmes's pipe/tobacco consumption (minimal) and the ubiquitous deerstalker and Inverness cape (non-existent). Perhaps this Holmes will adopt these rather sedate items in his retirement years. I'm as fond of the deerstalker as anyone, but it was Holmes's illustrator, not his author who devised it as Holmes's on-the-case uniform. This is not a 'plus' or 'minus' so much as an observation, but it's in the merit column for being something of a fresh, more youthful take on Holmes's personal style. 4. RDJ overcomes the disadvantages of his unsuitable frame and nationality with a very suitable air of intensity. 5. The bromance with his Watson is every bit as solid and droll as the bond over on the BBC. Behind every successful Holmes, there must be a rock-solid Watson and Jude Law fits the bill. Stay tuned for the rest coming next week!
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Post by William Smith on Jun 23, 2017 20:09:27 GMT -5
Hikari: The problem with the Downey Holmes is that the scripts are badly written, unCanonical, and illogical.
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Post by William Smith on Jun 23, 2017 20:13:34 GMT -5
At to the question of adding attachments or videos--use the help button. I am checking to make sure that videos and attachments are enabled. Here's an insert:
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Post by William Smith on Jun 23, 2017 20:43:33 GMT -5
When you post, use reply, not quick reply, and there are a number of control buttons that allow, for instance, for you to link to an image on the internet.
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hikari
New Member
I am the Stormy Petrel of crime.
Posts: 45
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Post by hikari on Jun 26, 2017 11:29:59 GMT -5
Hikari: The problem with the Downey Holmes is that the scripts are badly written, unCanonical, and illogical. I had hoped I'd figured out the Add Attachment feature, but it's taking so long to download, it does not appear to be working. Let's try again . . . .Nope . .all I get is the blue bar cycling and cycling, never 'Done'.
I figured you would raise the very objection which you have, which is why I hoped I'd taken enough pains to clarify that my analysis is strictly for the performance of Mr. Downey, Jr. in character, not a critique of the often-ridiculous machinations the scripts put him through. I have already acknowledged up front that RDJ is an un-Canonical Holmes in many of his particulars--but he is outstanding in a few areas which, I point out, *are* features of Holmes's character directly from the stories, though very often downplayed in dramatic reproductions of him. The RDJ package takes some getting used to . . . many of his poses in the role put me more in mind of Gary Oldman doing Count Vlad than they do Sherlock Holmes, but as a very physical SH, Robert can be a joy to watch. As ever, this Holmes is only bolstered by the presence of his loyal second. Between Jude Law and Martin Freeman, these two gents may have almost managed to dismantle the bumbling oaf stereotype of Dr. Watson left to us by Nigel Bruce.
I note you said 'scripts' above . . it might be more sporting to at least watch a portion of 'Game of Shadows' before you pronounce upon the deficiencies of the script.
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